LCI 7th Congress First Panel Conversation
September 21st, 2005 by Hal[Notes from LCI's 7th Annual Lean Construction Congress]
Following the three morning presentations the speakers had a panel conversation with the audience. The following notes are my best effort to capture the conversation just as it happened without paraphrasing or comments. The session was great. I hope you enjoy my attempt at providing this transcript.
Audience: Have you been involved in a claim situation?
Dave: We haven't seen this process cycle through yet. On one project we are facing a dispute. Time will tell; parties are coming together.
Doug: We had once incident that began down that road. If we hadn't been working under the approach we undoubtedly would have that issue (unresolved) today.
Audience: Talk in more detail how you are using SPS Project Flow?
Doug: Using it in two or three major areas. It was absolutely significant is civils. Also using it is the center of the center of the building.
Audience: To what degree do you find other owners interested in lean project delivery? What do you see as your role in influencing other owners?
Dave: We're in a position of leadership. We took a chance. We saw value. We have momentum. We're not turning back. If we are creating project environments that are good for the owners we might get a competitive advantage over others building who are attracting the same resources. Healthcare is trending towards unaffordability. Building the facilities for overall low costs is what is motivating us. It would be great to partner with others who are building. The word is getting out.
Will: We are making the effort when requested to provide information on why and what we're doing. I've spoken in a number of forums about this. We're engaging in conversations with other owners about how to be a good customer of these services. I'm speaking to the American Bar Association next month on the integrated form of agreement.
Doug: From a UK perspective we've been at the forefront of this revolution for a number of years. Despite the fact that this is embedded in the largest project BAA has ever done there are questions from our own staff. Our construction clients aren't asking about this approach. BAE (aerospace and ship building) has been curious.
Audience: As you transitioned from traditional to lean did you incur any hidden costs?
Doug: It's a very good question. Irrespective of putting lean construction in place, the reality is we must manage it at a ground level to get the benefit. You have to be careful that you aren't giving people an extra 20 minute coffee break.
Will: You have to be careful that people don't just graft this onto what they are already doing. They need to adjust what they are doing. People who are actually doing it will tell you they can manage more volume of work with less people.
Dave: This is part of the on-going assessment process. Learn, implement, assess, adjust.
Audience: How are contractors and subcontractors selected on T5?
Doug: The main contractors were bought in at the very beginning using a traditional process. Subcontractors were different. They have long term relationships with the main contractors. We effectively changed the way we delegate through the main contractors.
Audience: How far done the subcontractor tree does the integrated agreement go? Subcontractors have the attitude that they price what they see on the bid documents.
Dave: I'm with you. This has to be done on a project by project basis adjusting what you do to the circumstances of the project. We're trying to go away from the model you describe. As the (new) model bears fruit the leap of faith aspect goes away. We have to do a really good job of capturing the payoffs for each of the parties.
Doug: I totally agree with Dave. In order for subs to buy in we need industry wide structural changes. Fragmentation within the industry is getting in the way. We need more one-stop shops.
Audience: What is the basis of selection for the key performers?
Dave: IT's an evolving model with experimentation. We want to work with people we've worked with before. Given resource constraints in CA we have to balance. We are exploring self-assembled teams. The concept of bringing self-assembled teams who know how to work with each other.
Audience: Is there criteria for choosing a self-assembled team? Are there numbers involved?
Dave: We've evaluated differences in fee in the past. We want to be sure that the value proposition a team is presenting will be the basis for selecting.
Audience: The earlier you engage a team in your process the more value they will contribute value.
Dave: I want the teams on board before the business case is approved by our BOD.
Audience: What level do you take to examine their processes during selection. Is there a QS9000 standard?
Dave: Leadership is key. The extent we can deploy deeper and deeper on multiple projects takes time. We have to choose our targets. The extent we can deploy will depend on that level of scrutiny. We know he factors that contribute to success. We have to train on those. We have great people that we have to enable. Then we have to assess performance.
Doug: Because we take the risk on T5 we prioritize the supply base around different metrics. We work with the top suppliers — where our risk is. We make supplier visits not audits. We had a classic example by mapping a process at one of our suppliers we were able to avoid a major problem with logistics.
Audience: What is the quality of the design documentation coming from a lean process? The constraint log looks overwhelming.
Doug: We frequently hear that the constraints resolution process is hard. We attempt to win teams and suppliers over is removing constraints is business as usual. If they aren't doing that then what are they doing? Using that process will save them time.
Dave: The design phase is one we haven't figured out. We have suggestions for changes. I expect it will move from a large batch process to small batch design performed by groups running in parallel. We're learning.
Will: We view constraints as the agenda for the dialogue for producing reliable commitments. This contrasts with a push system that just advances the schedule. Regarding design documents, there are two customers for that phase. The first is the approval agencies. The other is the people building with those documents. We're trying to put the customers together with those producing the construction documents.
Audience: How do you incorporate OSHPD people in the IPD Team?
Dave: Dare to dream. OSHPD has new leadership. The tide is turning. We're seeing improvement. We are fortifying our own efforts with an agency coordination manager. Ultimately, we have to see how this will go.
Doug: At T5 we've had a challenge integrating the team at the individual level not the company level. Individuals have performed successfully in one way. We come asking them to perform differently. The guy doing the job just might not want to come to that party.
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